Question:

>I’d >like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually >like having full control over my car. >Mike >Try these: >Volkswagen Passat

questions about reliabilty >Audi A4

while a very impressive car, more than a grand or two more ( 30 K  for the V6 manual ) >Nissan Maxima

handling pales in comparison to honda.  not pretty for 2000, from what i’ve heard >BMW 3 series

yuppie/moron shit. >All are 6 cylinder cars with manual transmision

Yep, and you left out the Volkswagon Jetta.  I suppose I’ll have to consider one of the above seriously though.  Almost went Maxima, but couldn’t get the right price. >Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars.

Looks that way. Robert ( modify address for return email )

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>: Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars. >: >: >Guess that’s why they make the Integra GS-R, NSX, and Prelude, huh?

Ok, Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars that are bigger than a go-kart, or won’t take several years salary to pay off. Robert ( modify address for return email )

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> >: Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars. >: >: >Guess that’s why they make the Integra GS-R, NSX, and Prelude, huh? > Ok, Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars that are > bigger than a go-kart, or won’t take several years salary to pay off.

The prelude is about the size of a Mustang.  Are you calling the Mustang a Go-kart? > Robert > ( modify address for return email )

– Lee Cao – www.leecao.com BlueText Development

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>>Audi A4 >while a very impressive car, more than a grand or two more ( 30 K  for >the V6 manual )

It is expensive and a bit slow considering I would never buy an Audi without Quattro. Driving one is an experience though >Nissan Maxima >handling pales in comparison to honda.  not pretty for 2000, from what >i’ve heard

Handling is better than Honda, power is better too. Looks better on the road than in pictures >BMW 3 series >yuppie/moron shit.

BS, The 3 series is the best driving car on the road today. Expensive as hell though. >All are 6 cylinder cars with manual transmision >Yep, and you left out the Volkswagon Jetta.  I suppose I’ll have to >consider one of the above seriously though.  Almost went Maxima, but >couldn’t get the right price.

I consider the Jetta an economy car so its a step down from all the rest

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ve been browsing the web, checking specs. I’m disappointed that the >Accord V6 and CL are only available with an auto transmission if a V6 >engine is chosen. I know an auto is more acceptable with a more powerful >engine, but a VTEC V6+stick would be a lot more fun to drive. How hard >could it be for the factory to drop a stick in some of those cars? I’d >like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually >like having full control over my car. > Ditto, ditto and ditto.  I’d a owned an Accord for several years now, > if they would have come out with a manual V6.  Instead, I plunk along > in my Civic, considering alternative ( latest possibility is V6 manual > Jetta ).  As far as V6 manual Accord, from what all the automatic > driving panzies on this group have said, nothing doing.  I badly want > to find a suitable substitue, so that I can show Honda what I feel > about this decision with my wallett. > Robert

I’ve spoken with a Honda employee in marketing and it all boils down to sales.  They estimate that only about 1-3% of all V-6 equipped Hondas/Acuras will be sold a manual box.  Honda would have to certify a V6 with both tranny configurations and with the projected sales figures, it’s not in their interest to do it. I have a ‘96 Accord EX Coupe.  It took me about month just to locate one with a manual box and this is a four cylinder Accord.  The Honda employee I spoke with said he bought an Accord with a manual box.  Came time to sell, it was difficult to find a buyer and he had to sell it for about a grand less since it was manual.  That’s what seems to count.  Yeah, I agree with you as a driver.  I LOVE to drive my cars and would by a Honda V6 with a manual in a heartbeat but sales figures and resale value seem to dominate Hondas decision to only offer auto boxes with V6 engines.

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Here is what i would do if i had between $22-$27 to spend: I’d buy the 2000 MAxima, manual shift. Then i’sd spend about $4k on upgrading the suspension, tires & brakes. At the end of it, i’d have one sweet sports sedan. Another option: buy the camry V6 with manual. Upgrade suspension & muffler, so one can actually hear the engine, and upgrade brakes. Another sweet sports sedan. and both reliable too. -akhilesh BMW 1992 525i (one sweet sports sedan) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Audi A4 >while a very impressive car, more than a grand or two more ( 30 K  for >the V6 manual ) > It is expensive and a bit slow considering I would never buy an Audi without > Quattro. Driving one is an experience though >>Nissan Maxima >handling pales in comparison to honda.  not pretty for 2000, from what >i’ve heard > Handling is better than Honda, power is better too. Looks better on the road > than in pictures >>BMW 3 series >yuppie/moron shit. > BS, The 3 series is the best driving car on the road today. Expensive as > hell though. >>All are 6 cylinder cars with manual transmision >Yep, and you left out the Volkswagon Jetta.  I suppose I’ll have to >consider one of the above seriously though.  Almost went Maxima, but >couldn’t get the right price. > I consider the Jetta an economy car so its a step down from all the rest

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: Here is what i would do if i had between $22-$27 to spend: : I’d buy the 2000 MAxima, manual shift. Then i’sd spend about $4k on : upgrading the suspension, tires & brakes. Does upgrading the suspension include putting an independent rear suspension on, like even humble Neons, Escorts, and Hyundais have? : : At the end of it, i’d have one sweet sports sedan. : : Another option: : buy the camry V6 with manual. : Upgrade suspension & muffler, so one can actually hear the engine, and : upgrade brakes. : : Another sweet sports sedan. : : and both reliable too. True, but there’s also the Mazda 626 (need a lot of engine upgrade here). Or you could just buy a used Legene 6-speed.

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> : Here is what i would do if i had between $22-$27 to spend: > : I’d buy the 2000 MAxima, manual shift. Then i’sd spend about $4k on > : upgrading the suspension, tires & brakes. > Does upgrading the suspension include putting an independent rear > suspension on, like even humble Neons, Escorts, and Hyundais have?

Are you telling me the Maxima doesn’t have an independent rear suspension? And they call it a 4 door sports car? Mike — My reply-to is Anti-spam True username is mdaniel

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> : Here is what i would do if i had between $22-$27 to spend: > : I’d buy the 2000 MAxima, manual shift. Then i’sd spend about $4k on > : upgrading the suspension, tires & brakes. > Does upgrading the suspension include putting an independent rear > suspension on, like even humble Neons, Escorts, and Hyundais have?

*cough* *cough*, last time I checked, Geo Metros, had independent rear suspension. — Lee Cao – www.leecao.com BlueText Development

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: : I’d : >like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually : >like having full control over my car. : > : >Mike : Try these: : Volkswagen Passat : Audi A4 : Nissan Maxima : BMW 3 series : All are 6 cylinder cars with manual transmision Also Camry, Contour, Mystique, Saab 9-5, BMW 5 series, Infiniti I30, Mazda 626. : Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars. : : Guess that’s why they make the Integra GS-R, NSX, and Prelude, huh?

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> Lets be realistic. It will not happen. The legend that had the only v6 > with a stick other than the nsx was one of the worst sellers of all the > honda and acura models combined. That is includung the vigor. (IMO) THe > car was nice. It was fast, but nobody wants stick anymore. Let me > correct myself and say the majority. I rather see a car like the accord > ac-r with the tipronic shifting. Or how about a 5 speed auto? > That sounds good to me. > Did anybody ever figure out how they got 300 hp from the accord?

I will name my first born son after the person who show me how to do it. Just kidding.   Seriously 5.4 second 0-60… woohoo! > ck

– Lee Cao – www.leecao.com BlueText Development

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>I’ve been browsing the web, checking specs. I’m disappointed that the >Accord V6 and CL are only available with an auto transmission if a V6 >engine is chosen. I know an auto is more acceptable with a more powerful >engine, but a VTEC V6+stick would be a lot more fun to drive. How hard >could it be for the factory to drop a stick in some of those cars? I’d >like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually >like having full control over my car.

Ditto, ditto and ditto.  I’d a owned an Accord for several years now, if they would have come out with a manual V6.  Instead, I plunk along in my Civic, considering alternative ( latest possibility is V6 manual Jetta ).  As far as V6 manual Accord, from what all the automatic driving panzies on this group have said, nothing doing.  I badly want to find a suitable substitue, so that I can show Honda what I feel about this decision with my wallett. Robert ( modify address for return email )

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Heh don’t u miss the legends??? 230 hp with 6 spd man its a dream come true!!!  u can always tell honda I don’t want the automatic tranny and tell them to take a couple $$ off the car and ship it to u.  then drop in your own 5 spd for about 1500$ =) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve been browsing the web, checking specs. I’m disappointed that the > Accord V6 and CL are only available with an auto transmission if a V6 > engine is chosen. I know an auto is more acceptable with a more powerful > engine, but a VTEC V6+stick would be a lot more fun to drive. How hard > could it be for the factory to drop a stick in some of those cars? I’d > like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually > like having full control over my car. > Mike > — > My reply-to is Anti-spam > True username is mdaniel

Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Lets be realistic. It will not happen. The legend that had the only v6 with a stick other than the nsx was one of the worst sellers of all the honda and acura models combined. That is includung the vigor. (IMO) THe car was nice. It was fast, but nobody wants stick anymore. Let me correct myself and say the majority. I rather see a car like the accord ac-r with the tipronic shifting. Or how about a 5 speed auto? That sounds good to me. Did anybody ever figure out how they got 300 hp from the accord? ck

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But its not the V6 engine. The V6 is available in Europe in the Accord Coupe only in auto trans version.

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I had a look into my international car list from early 99. I didn’t find any Honda including the once made for the Japanese market which has got the Accord  V6 engine and a manual gear box.  The 2,2 litre 4 cylinder although it is producing 212 hp has only a maximum torque of 215 Nm whereas the 3 litre V6 with 200hp  produces 265 Nm .  This might have been the reason why Honda decided not to fit the V6 with the manual gearbox of the 2,2litre Accord.

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: I’ve been browsing the web, checking specs. I’m disappointed that the : Accord V6 and CL are only available with an auto transmission if a V6 : engine is chosen. I know an auto is more acceptable with a more powerful : engine, but a VTEC V6+stick would be a lot more fun to drive. How hard : could it be for the factory to drop a stick in some of those cars? I’d : like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually : like having full control over my car. It’s not hard, it’s just bad by the numbers. I’ve done the math on this before, but I don’t want to do it again, so I’ll try to remember it off the top of my head: Only 30% of all Accord sales are V6’s. Only 11% of sales would be manual, if we use the average # of manuals vs. automatics sold. Assuming Honda sells 400,000 Accords annually, the result would end up being something like 3,000 V6 manuals or less than 1% of total production. It’s just not worth it. (Dont’ interpret this as my own personal opinion. I would have loved to buy a manual V6 Accord.)

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However there are also other countries like Europe that would improve the statistics for the manual shifter. Since they do not offer it in this region either it seems as if the have not got a proper box that will fit the V6 engine and take the higher torque. Marcel Baum

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the accord type-r is offered in europe with a 212 hp 4 banger in a 5 spd. dave

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> However there are also other countries like Europe that would improve > the statistics for the manual shifter. Since they do not offer it in > this region either it seems as if the have not got a proper box that > will fit the V6 engine and take the higher torque. > Marcel Baum

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: the accord type-r is offered in europe with a 212 hp 4 banger in a 5 spd. and, imo, a more asthetically pleasing design, but that’s just me. Back to Marcel, since the US accounts for 80-90% of all Honda sales, the impact that a fast selling Accord sedan in Japan and Europe (you) wouldn’t make a huge impact if the stupid Americans (us) don’t buy them.

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> the accord type-r is offered in europe with a 212 hp 4 banger in a 5 spd. > dave

Tell you what… if they sold the Accord Coupe or Sedan with V6 and manual, I would trade in my Accord tomorrow.  And I think they should massage that V6 a little bit.  It has a confirmed 300HP potential without forced induction or NOS. I wonder where they got the tiptronic shifter from… I am speaking, of course, of the Accord AC-R. — Lee Cao – www.leecao.com BlueText Development

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I’d >like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually >like having full control over my car. >Mike

Try these: Volkswagen Passat Audi A4 Nissan Maxima BMW 3 series All are 6 cylinder cars with manual transmision Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars.

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: Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars. And that must be the reason they designed the NSX, lose money on each one they sell, and insist on building a second generation NSX for 2004.

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Last guy not entirely right.  I have a 1994 Legend LS. Its a SIX-speed manual with a 3.2L V-6. (Same engine thats in the NSX).  I can take any of the cars listed below, very easily. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’d >like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually >like having full control over my car. >Mike >Try these: >Volkswagen Passat >Audi A4 >Nissan Maxima >BMW 3 series >All are 6 cylinder cars with manual transmision >Honda doesn’t care about people who like to drive cars.

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I’ve been browsing the web, checking specs. I’m disappointed that the Accord V6 and CL are only available with an auto transmission if a V6 engine is chosen. I know an auto is more acceptable with a more powerful engine, but a VTEC V6+stick would be a lot more fun to drive. How hard could it be for the factory to drop a stick in some of those cars? I’d like to "move up" with my next car, but I don’t want an auto. I actually like having full control over my car. Mike — My reply-to is Anti-spam True username is mdaniel

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